Before quoting, I do want to point out that several of his observations match my own: 1. that the pasak bumi (tongkat ali) feels more natural than dopaminergics of yohimbine. There is very little systemic effect; one does not feel that one has taken a medication. 2. that sex tends to be more direct, from start to finish in a straight line, with little incentive to delay.

As Jack raises the question of combining the tongkat ali with dopaminergics: I myself have tried it with cabergoline, pergolide, and bromocriptine. Not only did the tongkat ali not add to the usual effect of the dopaminergics; it rather diminishes it. I do not recommend combining tongkat ali extract with dopaminergics.

Tongkat ali extract works well with Viagra. I have not tried it with yohimbine. Tongkat ali improves sleep architecture. I sleep like a stone for about 6 hours every night. Yohimbine terribly interferes with sleep. If I were to choose between good sleep and good sex, I'd take the good sex. But if I can have both, I'm a happy man.

Here now Jack's first impression:

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Hello Serge,

Well, I tried the sample pasak bumi you sent me. Wow, is that stuff bitter! I added it to my morning coffee and arranged to meet my pal around mid-day. She was interested and went along, but I would not let her try it until I myself had proven its efficacy and harmlessness.

In an effort to make my first test as objective as possible, I took no other drugs or substances (Dostinex, yohimbine, apomorphine, etc). I did use 50mg of Viagra for "plumbing" purposes. The effect was surprising and profound. I felt a strong desire for sexual action after about 2 1/2 hours of taking 1 gram of pasak bumi. Orgasm occurred with ease in a time that is normal for me (about 20 minutes). I did not try to contain orgasm. Frankly, it just felt too good, but perhaps I could have used the usual delay techniques.

What is most interesting to me is the fact that we had had sex last Sunday evening, less than 3 full days ago. I'm in my 60's (granted in good shape but nonetheless 60's). Our usual rhythm is around 6 days between sex more or less depending on her desire cycles and mine. So at 3 days I would have expected a much lesser intensity of desire and orgasm.

In short, either the stuff is really good or the placebo effect is very strong in me given my good past experiences with all your suggestions. This I'll leave to you to ponder.

I kinda like the idea of switching off the dopaminergics periodically, although I have not witnessed a deterioration in their effectiveness. This may be because I only use them before my sex every 6 days or so. Also, I feel were I to wait the usual 6 days, my good experience with pasak bumi would have been even better.

Incidentally, I did not feel the aggressiveness you indicated. Maybe because I'm not an aggressive type to begin with. More will be revealed to us as we continue to experiment.

Hmmmm...I wonder what pasak bumi would be like in combination with some of our other "stuff", or am I asking for trouble? Any ideas about which of the substances we've worked on (other than Viagra, of course) might enhance the pasak bumi?

Jack

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